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September 17, 2007

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DB

zero,
that's "cold" cash?
Kate, did you ever see the movie "Overboard" w Goldie Hawn?

Kate

I saw it but it's been years ago. I remember the plot, I remember Kurt Russell looked good (given) and I remembered his dream was to own a miniture golf course. I thought the mini-golf was a nice touch.

DB

I saw it before I had children. I recall Goldie... got my attention in her first bathing suit scene on the yacht. After I had children I recall her doing the "bahblu, bahblu, bahblu" in the arm chair. Not very meditative.

DB

Chuck writes:
"Let us recover the "untame Christ" who, though hardly safe, as Mr. Tumnus observed to Lucy, can be trusted because he is good."

NEW YORK - Rudy Giuliani, who sued firearms manufacturers and called for tough gun control as New York's mayor, said Tuesday the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and a recent court ruling framed his current defense of a right to own guns.
--end quote.

Makes me wonder how Christians or anyone with commonsense concerning firearms in America who support politicians with mindsets like flip flop Rudy Giuliani interpret "untame Christ", "not safe" and how Christ might behave and respond untamely during and after invasive times like America's 9/11. It's tough pacifist love to my interpretation. Can a just and firm love ethic allow weapons of individual and mass destruction? And if God doesn't appear to be "delivering us from evil" then I reckon some ok Bushian ethics of individual and mass destruction. And i personnaly pray Lord do not lead me into temptations because I do not know my own behavior in the face of what would challenge my beliefs, hopes and loves.

Leads into another topic:

"President Bush announced new U.S. sanctions against Myanmar, formerly known as Burma, accusing the military dictatorship of imposing "a 19-year reign of fear" that denies basic freedoms of speech, assembly and worship.

"Americans are outraged by the situation in Burma," Bush said in an address to the U.N. General Assembly in New York.

Bush said the U.S. would tighten economic sanctions on leaders of the regime and their financial backers, and impose an expanded visa ban on those responsible for human rights violations and their families.
-- end quote.
400 Americans WERE ARRESTED IN AMERICA PROTESTING BUSH'S POLICIES IN IRAQ AND GUANTANIMO IMPRISONMENTS AND ABUSE WHILE HE SPOKE THESE WORDS.

Kate

http://youtube.com/watch?v=E4RVw-11Vg8

Is this what you're talking about?

"What's for Dinner?", indeed.

DB

Kate,
scarry eh? How you find these things?!! I really laughed again last night at seeing this love story bit.

Amazes me still how Youtube has all these things that used to be just questionable memories... now a new dimension to trivia w proof. And then the utterly fantastic thought to be lost to the past moments like Coltrane and Miles Davis playing together.

Your " "What's for Dinner?", indeed." reminds me of "Taming of the Shrew" with Taylor and Burton... sans kids who ask, "Can we trade her in for another one?"

DB

Gates said the extra $42 billion was necessary to buy vehicles that can protect troops against roadside bombs, refurbish equipment worn down by combat and

consolidate U.S. bases in Iraq.

johnOneOne

Chuck, I come close to disagreeing with you here; though technically of course I don't.

You don't quote a single scripture here. How about Romans 13:1+? Is that passage saying nationalism is idolatry? No, it's not. Then how about Matthew 6:24? Is there an idolatry mentioned there? Of course there is. And which is the bigger idolatry in modern America?

I do understand, and largely agree with your point, but I strongly believe that if one is going to criticize nationalism in the USA, one had better put that criticism in perspective, relative to the HUGE idolatry of capitalism in the USA. It's by far the bigger idolatry in American terms, and it's by far the more clear idolatry in scriptural terms.

Jesus didn't say "you can't serve both God and country." He DID say, "you can't serve both God and Money." I'm not making this up; I'm talking about scripture here.

Difference between serving and worshipping? Sure; that's subtle. Difference between worshipping God and worshipping something established by God? Sure, but again, subtle.

But God vs. Money? Not subtle in Jesus' own words.

But for all this discussion of nationalism as idolatry, I'm not seeing any Christians criticizing capitalism as idolatry. Why not? Too many ostrich Christians, with their heads at the end of their long stiff necks, buried in the sand of capitalism?

And if you want to talk about persecution - tell one of those flag-waving Christians - either flag, you pick - that you believe Jesus was a socialist, and that that same early church, who wrote and believed Romans 13 in spite of their oppression at the hands of the corrupt Roman government, were effectively communists, by the modern definition of the word.

The idolatry that underlies American nationalism is capitalism, and that is the real problem in this country. So you're not wrong to criticize nationalism, but you're letting capitalism off the hook by omission. Nationalism is the mouse in the cupboard compared to capitalism, which is the elephant smack in the middle of the room.

With all due respect, Chuck, to criticize nationalism as idolatry without mentioning capitalism, in this country, is nothing if not tame. Wanna be untame? Go after the elephant, not the mouse.

DB

C&W songster Faron Young had the courage to sing of loneliness as a man and that begot the hit tune "Hello Walls". Human relationships certainly know suffering and self inclosure into a room. Self inclosure probably could be healed through living the example of Christ Jesus even though His works have not been duplicated to my knowledge in the "works department" and thus begetting a following. Yet I guess as popular as He was he got some self inclosure issues on the cross even though actually His women friends never "upped and walked away" but the "dread" came anyway. And the resurrection begot so much love and understanding that the hearts and minds were opened even though the doors at pentecost in the upper room were closed to the huddlers in fears. Holy Spirit broke in somehow like Jesus had appeared earlier in a room... just like that... and the rest is history... convoluted history. I guess living examples and inner experiences are kin.
The song:
Hello walls (hello hello) how things go for you today
Don't you miss her since she upped and walked away
And I'll bet you dread to spend another lonely night with me
But lonely walls I'll keep you company
Hello window (hello hello) well I see that you're still here
Aren't you lonely since our darling disappeared
Well look here is that a teardrop in the corner of your pane
Now don't you try to tell me that it's rain
She went away and left us all alone the way she planned
Yes we'll have to learn to get along without her if we can
Hello ceiling (hello hello) I'm gonna stare at you a while
You know I can't sleep so won't you bear with me awhile
We must all stick together or else I'll lose my mind
I've got a feeling she'll be gone a long long time (hello hello)

Makes me also wonder about the mileage Faron got out of this tune in the dating department? Relationships are confusing sometimes... ephemerality with cement.

John the ex-Baptist

DB,

Willie Nelson wrote "Hello Walls" for Faron Young. Around the same time, he wrote "Crazy" for Patsy Cline and "Pretty Paper" for Roy Orbison. You could probably extend your theme with both of those.

DB

JtXB,
absolutly! Willie's the man. And you... someone on this wave length too!
But I am amazed.

The wealth of information in those tunes and human nature. JtXB, this came on a discussion called "Nationalism is Idolatry" or something like that. I think of God weeping over idolators... going "crazy" too as we read of OT God's reactions and Jesus looking at Jerusalem and thinking about the mother protector in the chicken yard. God as a human running off to
solitary places" to get things right in his divine head that apparently thinks humanly. And then too how do we humans react to each other in love and also in a "faith" based fidelity to a God we can not see. Man I hope I can find Roy doing Pretty Paper on the Youtube whne I get back from taking Sammy son to school. It's just a distant distant hearing right now. What voice. Ever hear The Traveling Wilburies' End of the Line. The suffering of loss to come was there too in those men singing. Praise the gospel of eternal life.

DB

Praise the gospel of healing faith. Bring it to the nation America and the world we hit and our families. Thank you Jesus, Father God, Holy Spirit with us.

DB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoFbkNEsMJg

My goodness gracious!!! Moving on down the line. Didn't get Pretty Paper but got somewhere.

Omar

DB,

Could you provide a report or link showing where these 400 were arrested? I am not trying to challenge you, I have just learned in the past that if I go say something to someone, I had better have it backed up.

Peace,
Omar
http://firstbornson.blogspot.com/

DB

Sure. I'll try to find it. I know it was an AP, Associated Press, release.

DB

Omar, my apologies and thanks to you. It was a dozen out of 400 arrested. My eye and anger get ahead of my typing fingers and mindfulness. I believe this is the article I read prior to it's publication at this site:

http://www.silive.com / newsflash / metro / index.ssf? / base / news-28 / 1190733052281700.xml&sto...

DB

NewsFlash Home | More New York Metro

Dozen anti-Bush protesters are arrested near UN
9/25/2007, 7:51 p.m. EDT
By KAREN MATTHEWS
The Associated Press

NEW YORK (AP) — About a dozen anti-war protesters were arrested Tuesday during a demonstration against President Bush's speech to the United Nations General Assembly.

"I want Bush and Cheney arrested," said Ben Maurer of Brooklyn, one of the protesters who knelt on the sidewalk in a planned act of civil disobedience before being handcuffed by police and put in a van.

The arrestees were among about 400 people opposing the Bush administration's war in Iraq, and its incarceration in Guantanamo Bay of more than 300 men on suspicion of terrorism or links to al-Qaida or the Taliban. Many in the crowd wore orange jumpsuits in solidarity with the Guantanamo detainees.

zero

i want bush and cheney arrested too.
my mission away was to take my 80 something parents to omaha to attend a reunion of ww2 vets who flew on the pby plane. this reunion has been held yearly for 20 years now. the numbers decrease yearly and more offspring like myself get the parents there now so they can still attend. at the banquet saturday pm i watched these dudes do their tribute to each other, all those who have died in the last year, all those who couldn't attend and to their service to their country. it moved me, quite unexpectedly as i am a supreme pacifist. all week i had listened to their war stories or listened as they told each other their war stories. it occurred to me at the banquet that these guys (and gals) may have fought the only just war this country has ever been involved in. because of their experiences and their deep commitment to this nation, they have no concept that "leaders" like bush, cheney and puppet military yes-men could actually be wrong in their actions. when i was alone with my mother i expressed this to her and to my great surprise (she's a bush man like dad) she understood and agreed with me. wow. she would be in the minority, however, as i don't think these sailors could ever see an america at war as anything but just. after this "greatest generation" is gone and we of the wars hence are the oldest generation, will we have had enough and say no more war?

DB

I believe only a proportinate few compared to world population will ever live and preach a non-violent life. The exemplary monks of Myanmar! en mass collectively resisting corruption with their individual "upturned begging bowls that reflect light" (one on-scene reporter).

In my xtian mythology I look towards "the Kingdom come" as the only source of righteousness and justice setting humanity straight.

zero

if only.
if only war didn't make some men rich.
if only war didn't provide a means to vanquish.
if only war didn't make some (more) powerful.
if only some didn't believe that the force of war is the only way to show strengtth.
if only those who seek war were they only ones to wage war.
maybe then men would study war no more.
(but i doubt it..........except for the final if only).

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